@arabs_exmus I am sorry but where exactly is your Argument. I can’t seem to understand what philosophy or scientific reason are you trying to make here.. this is just based claims that don’t make any sense whatsoever. I talked about contingency, necessary existence and infinite regress..
@arabs_exmus And I have already listed the scientific arguments that atheist couldn’t prove..
Kalam, contingency, the irrationality of a non created universe, and also the fine tuning argument, the natural disposition to recognise God and consciousness...
Kalam, contingency, the irrationality of a non created universe, and also the fine tuning argument, the natural disposition to recognise God and consciousness...
@arabs_exmus (Note experts in this topic still hasn’t find and given enough reasons to prove these arguments wrong) legit all of them.. all of those weak arguments made by atheists on YouTube who are not well educated in this got their ass debunked.. let me explain to you what consciousness
@arabs_exmus Exactly means.. in fucking detail and it still hasn’t been proven.. but honestly this is the last time. You are an amateur here educate yourself lol. Okay so.. let’s begin bismillah..
@arabs_exmus Okay so Atheism is built on the premise that all things can be explained physically—that everything ultimately boils down to a material world Consciousness, however, suggests that this isnt the case.
@arabs_exmus In its simplest form, the Hard Problem of Consciousness is that a purely physical world cannot account for subjective experiences. Subjective experiences, however, exist. So, then, do we live in a purely physical world?
@arabs_exmus This is the basis of the Hard Problem. Let me give an example so it makes sense:
The color red. In nature, in “objective reality,” red doesnt actually exist. What does exist is a wavelength of 650 nm oscillating through space. Nothing more, nothing less. Its a purely physical,
The color red. In nature, in “objective reality,” red doesnt actually exist. What does exist is a wavelength of 650 nm oscillating through space. Nothing more, nothing less. Its a purely physical,
@arabs_exmus numerical phenomenon
Yet somehow, the internal, nonmaterial experience of what “red” means comes into existence, despite there not being a source of data in nature to define what experiencing red should be like
You might say “no, we have organs that sense colors.”
Yet somehow, the internal, nonmaterial experience of what “red” means comes into existence, despite there not being a source of data in nature to define what experiencing red should be like
You might say “no, we have organs that sense colors.”
@arabs_exmus Not quite. We have organs that sense wavelengths, not colors. Let me explain:
Is color an objective thing? Could it be mapped out in an equation and explained to someone who is blind, or can I ever prove my blue is the same as yours? No. This is a known fact. The reason
Is color an objective thing? Could it be mapped out in an equation and explained to someone who is blind, or can I ever prove my blue is the same as yours? No. This is a known fact. The reason
@arabs_exmus is because colors dont exist outside of perception
This is made especially clear by walking through how the brain perceives things in the first place. Let’s continue with the example of colors
First, we have a purely physical wavelength of light permeating through space
This is made especially clear by walking through how the brain perceives things in the first place. Let’s continue with the example of colors
First, we have a purely physical wavelength of light permeating through space
@arabs_exmus It hits our retina (also a purely physical thing), which sends electrical signals (still physical) to neurons (physical), and then the neurons interact. It doesn’t matter how complex these interactions are—all the processes are mechanical, physical
Yet somehow, somewhere, in
Yet somehow, somewhere, in
@arabs_exmus this interaction between materials, a nonmaterial *experience* manifests despite there being no link between what I’m experiencing and what’s happening physically
The same is true for sound, taste, touch, happiness, etc. ALL inner experiences are not a product of physical data
The same is true for sound, taste, touch, happiness, etc. ALL inner experiences are not a product of physical data
@arabs_exmus The brain is NOT able to create something immaterial (our experiences) when all it has to work with are material things
This is where the problem lies. We paradoxically have these inner experiences in a world where they physically don’t exist, and science has no way to
This is where the problem lies. We paradoxically have these inner experiences in a world where they physically don’t exist, and science has no way to
@arabs_exmus rationalize how this works. It’s called the “Hard Problem” because the answer doesn’t lie in “we just need better technology” to solve it
The problem is inherently unsolvable by science because science deals with objectivity while consciousness is purely subjective
The problem is inherently unsolvable by science because science deals with objectivity while consciousness is purely subjective
@arabs_exmus In fact, the term for a person who believes our perceptions are equivalent to reality are known as “naive realists,” as they haven’t yet made this understanding
I would argue over 95% of atheists are stuck as naive realists, unable to make this connection
I would argue over 95% of atheists are stuck as naive realists, unable to make this connection
@arabs_exmus Moreover, here is famous atheist, Sam Harris, acknowledging the impossibility of understanding consciousness scientifically
@arabs_exmus Since science is based on describing the natural world, and science is unable to describe consciousness, then it follows that *consciousness is not part of the natural world*
This opens a doors atheists have been trying to close for centuries: that there’s nothing above the
This opens a doors atheists have been trying to close for centuries: that there’s nothing above the
@arabs_exmus physical world
They’ll say “show me objective evidence of God” while they cant even show you evidence their own mind exists. Still, they believe it does. A fundamental logical flaw that shows they pick and choose what to think to fit their agenda; they don’t *want* to believe
They’ll say “show me objective evidence of God” while they cant even show you evidence their own mind exists. Still, they believe it does. A fundamental logical flaw that shows they pick and choose what to think to fit their agenda; they don’t *want* to believe
@arabs_exmus So, what does Islam think about this? Do we believe in an essence of the self that isn’t observable?
Yes, it’s called the Ruh (Soul). In other words, consciousness is the soul. In the Quran, Allah swt says:
Yes, it’s called the Ruh (Soul). In other words, consciousness is the soul. In the Quran, Allah swt says:
@arabs_exmus “They ask you [O Mohammad] about the soul. Say, “The soul is of the affair of my Lord, and mankind has not been given knowledge except a little.” [17:85]
Isnt it interesting how the one thing we aren’t able to understand at all is also the thing Allah swt says He hasn’t given
Isnt it interesting how the one thing we aren’t able to understand at all is also the thing Allah swt says He hasn’t given
@arabs_exmus us knowledge on?
(I understand the main interpretation of this ayah is that Jibreel (as) is the Ruh, but this isn’t the only interpretation and both can work. Moreover, the word Ruh is directly understood as soul)
Another interesting point is the following verse:
(I understand the main interpretation of this ayah is that Jibreel (as) is the Ruh, but this isn’t the only interpretation and both can work. Moreover, the word Ruh is directly understood as soul)
Another interesting point is the following verse:
@arabs_exmus “And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration.” [15:29]
When Allah swt created Adam, He first made his material/physical form. Then, He gave him a soul, which is what gave Adam life—the *experience* of existing
When Allah swt created Adam, He first made his material/physical form. Then, He gave him a soul, which is what gave Adam life—the *experience* of existing
@arabs_exmus The point I’m getting across here is that Islam is more in line with the modern understanding of consciousness than atheism is, as atheism is unable to even reconcile its existence. They don’t have, and will never have, a solution to the Hard Problem
So what do they argue in
So what do they argue in
@arabs_exmus response? I’ll just list out the main counter argument since it’s bound to show up
“If consciousness is immaterial, how come if the physical brain is destroyed, consciousness is too?”
This refutation doesn’t logically follow, and here’s why: removing the medium for how we
“If consciousness is immaterial, how come if the physical brain is destroyed, consciousness is too?”
This refutation doesn’t logically follow, and here’s why: removing the medium for how we
@arabs_exmus know something exists doesn’t mean the thing itself no longer exists. For example, you need a TV to decode/see a radio signal. But if you destroy the TV, it doesn’t logically follow that the radio signal is gone too. It just means you’ve lost the medium to see it. In the
@arabs_exmus same way, if you destroy the physical aspect of a person (their brain), you cannot then assume that their consciousness is gone with it. It very well could exist without it (like a radio signal exists without a TV)
In my view, the brain just attenuates/grounds our conscious
In my view, the brain just attenuates/grounds our conscious
@arabs_exmus experience to the physical world that surrounds it so that we can survive. It matches certain physical things (wavelengths) with non physical things (colors) so we can understand the world around us, without inherently being part of it
In other words, were just travelers here
In other words, were just travelers here
@arabs_exmus Don’t lose your sight along the way. Allah swt constructed this simulated world to test us, and being tested in faith is just part of the process. He gives us signs along the way, and your own consciousness is a sign and miracle in and of itself
SubhanAllah
SubhanAllah
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