[Thread]
Debunking gondal's ignorance on Islam, specially Hadiths. Read till the end, please.
In shaa Allah, I'll show everyone how Muslim scholars have critiqued this narration from a Matn & Isnad standpoints +1000 years ago.
Bismillah.
Debunking gondal's ignorance on Islam, specially Hadiths. Read till the end, please.
In shaa Allah, I'll show everyone how Muslim scholars have critiqued this narration from a Matn & Isnad standpoints +1000 years ago.
Bismillah.
1. This Hadith isn't attributed to the Prophet ﷺ
gondal: "What was this companion thinking?" 🤦♂️
2. The narrator, Amr Ibn Maimun, isn't a companion 🤣 He was alive during pre-Islamic Arabia, heard about Islam & reverted but never met the Prophet ﷺ. He is a Tabiee تابعي
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gondal: "What was this companion thinking?" 🤦♂️
2. The narrator, Amr Ibn Maimun, isn't a companion 🤣 He was alive during pre-Islamic Arabia, heard about Islam & reverted but never met the Prophet ﷺ. He is a Tabiee تابعي
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3. Ibn Maimun narrated (in this Hadith) something he saw & interpreted himself
4. Whether or not his understanding & interpretation (monkeys threw stones at 1 of their own BECAUSE it committed adultery) was right or wrong is outside the bounds of the Hadith
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4. Whether or not his understanding & interpretation (monkeys threw stones at 1 of their own BECAUSE it committed adultery) was right or wrong is outside the bounds of the Hadith
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5. Muslims don't have to believe in Ibn Maimun's interpretation (stones were thrown cuz of adultery)
6. Muslims are only required to believe in authentic Hadiths attributed to the Prophet ﷺ. Interpretations of things Tabieen saw تابعين can be questioned
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6. Muslims are only required to believe in authentic Hadiths attributed to the Prophet ﷺ. Interpretations of things Tabieen saw تابعين can be questioned
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6. gondal probably thinks no Muslim scholar questioned what Ibn Maimun reported
7. Scholars said there's no blame on someone who questions what Ibn Maimun said regarding what happened with these monkeys, as I'll shortly show, in shaa Allah
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7. Scholars said there's no blame on someone who questions what Ibn Maimun said regarding what happened with these monkeys, as I'll shortly show, in shaa Allah
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8. Ibn Qutaybah said "Ibn Maimun's opinion that monkeys stoned 1 of their own for adultery is indeed speculation on his behalf."
9. Ibn Abd al-Barr said "According to scholars, projecting Islamic laws on non-Mukalafs (monkeys) is Munkar."
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9. Ibn Abd al-Barr said "According to scholars, projecting Islamic laws on non-Mukalafs (monkeys) is Munkar."
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10. Al Qurtuby said "If this narration is authentic, then Bukhari only added it to prove Ibn Maimun was alive before Islam, but he didn't care about his interpretation of what he saw."
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11. Al Albany said "This is a Munkar. How can someone know monkeys get married & that they practice chastity, but when one of them breaks that they kill it? How can Amr Ibn Maimun they reason the monkeys stoned one of their own is because it committed adultery?"
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12. In the chain of this narration, there's someone called "Nuaim Bin Hammad". Let's see what scholars said about him.
13. Ibn Hajarr said about Bin Hammad in Al Taqreeb Wa Al Tahtheeb التقريب و التهذيب: "He's truthful, but makes a lot of mistakes."
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13. Ibn Hajarr said about Bin Hammad in Al Taqreeb Wa Al Tahtheeb التقريب و التهذيب: "He's truthful, but makes a lot of mistakes."
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14. Al Thahaby said about Bin Hammad in Seyarr Alaam Al Nubalaa سير أعلام النبلاء "No one may use him as evidence. He said strange and Munkar things"
15. Yehhia bin Maain said about Bin Hammad in Seyarr Alaam Al Nubalaa سير أعلام النبلاء "He narrates from unreliable people..
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15. Yehhia bin Maain said about Bin Hammad in Seyarr Alaam Al Nubalaa سير أعلام النبلاء "He narrates from unreliable people..
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... but he was a man of Sunnah"
16. There're more scholars who critiqued Nuaim Bin Hammad, but I think the respected ones I've mentioned are enough
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16. There're more scholars who critiqued Nuaim Bin Hammad, but I think the respected ones I've mentioned are enough
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17. Hushaim هشيم is another narrator in the chain that has been classified as a "Mudalis" by many scholars (such as Hatem Bin Hebban, Ibn Hajarr, Al Thahaby, Khaleel Bin Aibak, ...etc.)
For more information on that, check hadith.islam-db.com
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For more information on that, check hadith.islam-db.com
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18. It's known that monkeys do have intercourse very frequently. They also throw stones at each other for s*x-related reasons So, it's possible Ibn Maimun saw something similar to the behavior in this video & misinterpreted what he saw.
youtube.com
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youtube.com
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19. In shaa Allah it's clear that gondal is ignorant & that Muslim scholars were never brain dead as murtaddeen like to fantasize
20. Finally, I hope now it's clear for Muslims & sincere non-Muslims that murtaddeen (ex-Muslims) are either liars, extremely ignorant or both
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20. Finally, I hope now it's clear for Muslims & sincere non-Muslims that murtaddeen (ex-Muslims) are either liars, extremely ignorant or both
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Thank you & Jzakum Allahu khairan!
gondal:
"Is this supposed a twisted endorsement of Sharia stoning by the animal kingdom"
I'm not aware of any scholar who supported stoning married adulterers by referencing this Hadith. Allah commanded it, we obey. If u know such a scholar, cite him with book name & page number
"Is this supposed a twisted endorsement of Sharia stoning by the animal kingdom"
I'm not aware of any scholar who supported stoning married adulterers by referencing this Hadith. Allah commanded it, we obey. If u know such a scholar, cite him with book name & page number
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