A (๐งต) regarding the salaf's understanding of Allฤh's Speech and its audibility
This will be a thread on the understanding of the salaf regarding this subject and the way it was understood by those who came after them
This will be a thread on the understanding of the salaf regarding this subject and the way it was understood by those who came after them
The emphasis of this thread will be on narrations or statements from books which have been peer-cited by others or at the very least confirm a common understanding on the matter
Imฤm Bukhฤrฤซ ุฑูุญูู
ููู ูฑูููููฐูู said in his creedal work khalq afโฤl al-โibฤd:
"ููููุฐูููุฑู ุนููู ุงููููุจูููู ุตููููู ุงูููู ุนููููููู ููุณููููู ู ุฃูููููู ููุงูู ููุญูุจูู ุฃููู ููููููู ุงูุฑููุฌููู ุฎูููุถู ุงูุตููููุชูุ ููููููุฑููู ุฃููู ููููููู ุฑููููุนู ุงูุตููููุชูุ ููุฅูููู ุงูููููู ุนูุฒูู"
1/4
"ููููุฐูููุฑู ุนููู ุงููููุจูููู ุตููููู ุงูููู ุนููููููู ููุณููููู ู ุฃูููููู ููุงูู ููุญูุจูู ุฃููู ููููููู ุงูุฑููุฌููู ุฎูููุถู ุงูุตููููุชูุ ููููููุฑููู ุฃููู ููููููู ุฑููููุนู ุงูุตููููุชูุ ููุฅูููู ุงูููููู ุนูุฒูู"
1/4
He then said:
"ููุฌูููู โููููุงุฏูู โุจูุตูููุชู ููุณูู ูุนููู ู ููู ุจูุนูุฏู ููู ูุง ููุณูู ูุนููู ู ููู ููุฑูุจูุ ููููููุณู ููุฐูุง ููุบูููุฑู ุงูููููู ุนูุฒูู ููุฌูููู ุฐูููุฑููู ููุงูู ุฃูุจูู ุนูุจูุฏู ุงูููููู: " ููููู ููุฐูุง ุฏูููููู ุฃูููู ุตูููุชู ุงูููููู ููุง ููุดูุจููู ุฃูุตูููุงุชู ุงููุฎููููู"
2/4
"ููุฌูููู โููููุงุฏูู โุจูุตูููุชู ููุณูู ูุนููู ู ููู ุจูุนูุฏู ููู ูุง ููุณูู ูุนููู ู ููู ููุฑูุจูุ ููููููุณู ููุฐูุง ููุบูููุฑู ุงูููููู ุนูุฒูู ููุฌูููู ุฐูููุฑููู ููุงูู ุฃูุจูู ุนูุจูุฏู ุงูููููู: " ููููู ููุฐูุง ุฏูููููู ุฃูููู ุตูููุชู ุงูููููู ููุง ููุดูุจููู ุฃูุตูููุงุชู ุงููุฎููููู"
2/4
He continued further:
"ููุฃูููู ุตูููุชู ุงูููููู ุฌูููู ุฐูููุฑููู ููุณูู ูุนู ู ููู ุจูุนูุฏู ููู ูุง ููุณูู ูุนู ู ููู ููุฑูุจูุ ููุฃูููู ุงููู ูููุงุฆูููุฉู ููุตูุนูููููู ู ููู ุตูููุชูููุ ููุฅูุฐูุง ุชูููุงุฏูู ุงููู ูููุงุฆูููุฉู ููู ู ููุตูุนููููุง"
3/4
"ููุฃูููู ุตูููุชู ุงูููููู ุฌูููู ุฐูููุฑููู ููุณูู ูุนู ู ููู ุจูุนูุฏู ููู ูุง ููุณูู ูุนู ู ููู ููุฑูุจูุ ููุฃูููู ุงููู ูููุงุฆูููุฉู ููุตูุนูููููู ู ููู ุตูููุชูููุ ููุฅูุฐูุง ุชูููุงุฏูู ุงููู ูููุงุฆูููุฉู ููู ู ููุตูุนููููุง"
3/4
And concluded with:
"ููููุงูู ุนูุฒูู ููุฌูููู: {ููููุง ุชูุฌูุนููููุง ููููููู ุฃูููุฏูุงุฏูุง} [ุงูุจูุฑุฉ: 22] ููููููุณู ููุตูููุฉู ุงูููููู ููุฏููุ ููููุง ู ูุซูููุ ููููุง ููุฌุฏู ุดูููุกู ู ููู ุตูููุงุชููู ููู ุงููู ูุฎููููููููู"
4/4
"ููููุงูู ุนูุฒูู ููุฌูููู: {ููููุง ุชูุฌูุนููููุง ููููููู ุฃูููุฏูุงุฏูุง} [ุงูุจูุฑุฉ: 22] ููููููุณู ููุตูููุฉู ุงูููููู ููุฏููุ ููููุง ู ูุซูููุ ููููุง ููุฌุฏู ุดูููุกู ู ููู ุตูููุงุชููู ููู ุงููู ูุฎููููููููู"
4/4
Imฤm Bukhฤrฤซ: "It's been mentioned that the Prophet ๏ทบ liked a person to have a low voice and he used to dislike a person to have loud voice, and that Allฤh, the Most High, the Most Sublime, calls out in a Voice which is heard by those afar as it's heard by those nearby"
1/4
1/4
He continued: "and this (attribute) is for none other but Allฤh, the Most High, the Most Sublime. Abลซ 'Abdullฤh said: "And there is, in this (narration), evidence that Allฤh's Voice is not similar to the voices of created beings"
2/4
2/4
He then said: "because the Voice of Allฤh, the Most High, is heard from a long distance as it is heard from a short distance, and the angels fall unconscious from His Voice, but when the angels call out they don't fall unconscious"
3/4
3/4
He thus concluded:
"and (Allฤh) the Most High, the Most Sublime said: 'And don't set up equals to Allฤh' [2:22], hence no attribute is equal or similar to the Attribute of Allฤh and nothing of His Attributes is existent in His creation."
4/4
"and (Allฤh) the Most High, the Most Sublime said: 'And don't set up equals to Allฤh' [2:22], hence no attribute is equal or similar to the Attribute of Allฤh and nothing of His Attributes is existent in His creation."
4/4
Similarly the first son of Imฤm Aแธฅmad narrated from his father that he said:
"ุฌุจุฑูู ุณู ุนู ู ู ุงููู ุชุนุงูู ุ ูุงููุจู ุตูู ุงููู ุนููู ูุณูู ย ุณู ุนู ู ู ุฌุจุฑูู ุ ูุงูุตุญุงุจุฉ ุณู ุนุชู ู ู ุงููุจู ุตูู ุงููู ุนููู ูุณูู "
The emphasis here is on actually hearing the Words
"ุฌุจุฑูู ุณู ุนู ู ู ุงููู ุชุนุงูู ุ ูุงููุจู ุตูู ุงููู ุนููู ูุณูู ย ุณู ุนู ู ู ุฌุจุฑูู ุ ูุงูุตุญุงุจุฉ ุณู ุนุชู ู ู ุงููุจู ุตูู ุงููู ุนููู ูุณูู "
The emphasis here is on actually hearing the Words
This is also similar to what al-Karkhฤซ shared from al-Isfarฤyฤซnฤซ to share the general consensus and highlight the Shฤfiสฟฤซ position
al-Isfarฤyฤซnฤซ said:
"ู ุฐูุจู ูู ุฐูุจ ุงูุดุงูุนู ููููุงุก ุงูุฃู ุตุงุฑ : ุฃูย ุงููุฑุขู ููุงู ุงููู ุบูุฑ ู ุฎููู ุ ูู ู ูุงู : ู ุฎููู ููู ูุงูุฑ"
al-Isfarฤyฤซnฤซ said:
"ู ุฐูุจู ูู ุฐูุจ ุงูุดุงูุนู ููููุงุก ุงูุฃู ุตุงุฑ : ุฃูย ุงููุฑุขู ููุงู ุงููู ุบูุฑ ู ุฎููู ุ ูู ู ูุงู : ู ุฎููู ููู ูุงูุฑ"
He continued:
"ูุงููุฑุขู ุญู ูู ุฌุจุฑููย ู ุณู ูุนุง ู ู ุงููู ุ ูุงููุจู ุตูู ุงููู ุนููู ูุณูู ุณู ุนู ู ู ุฌุจุฑูู ุ ูุงูุตุญุงุจุฉ ุณู ุนูู ู ูย ุฑุณูู ุงููู ุตูู ุงููู ุนููู ูุณูู "
"ูุงููุฑุขู ุญู ูู ุฌุจุฑููย ู ุณู ูุนุง ู ู ุงููู ุ ูุงููุจู ุตูู ุงููู ุนููู ูุณูู ุณู ุนู ู ู ุฌุจุฑูู ุ ูุงูุตุญุงุจุฉ ุณู ุนูู ู ูย ุฑุณูู ุงููู ุตูู ุงููู ุนููู ูุณูู "
al-Isfarฤyฤซnฤซ said that the position if his maแธhab, Shฤfiสฟฤซ, and of the fuqahฤ (in general) is that the Qurสผฤn is uncreated, and he who claims otherwise has disbelieved. He then continued to mention that jibrฤซl heard it from Allฤh, as did the companions from the prophet ๏ทบ
Therefore, it's clear that the Aศแธฅฤb al-แธคadiแนฏh held this position and those who followed Imฤm Aแธฅmad ุฑูุญูู
ููู ูฑูููููฐูู in his creed
This includes the likes of:
- Ibn Qudฤmah
- สฟAbd al-Qฤdir al-Jฤซlฤnฤซ
- al-Harawฤซ
- Ibn mandah
Among many others from different maแธฤhib
This includes the likes of:
- Ibn Qudฤmah
- สฟAbd al-Qฤdir al-Jฤซlฤnฤซ
- al-Harawฤซ
- Ibn mandah
Among many others from different maแธฤhib
Many of them mentioned an ijmฤสฟ on this matter from the salaf and this was confirmed by al-Shahrastฤnฤซ who said the following about the emergence of the other conflicting position
al-Shahrastฤnฤซ: "al-Ashสฟarฤซ innovated a third position and judged with the emergence of the letters, and this is the loss of the ijmฤสฟ, and he judged that what we read is Allฤh's kalฤm (but) only metaphorically (and) not haqiqatan, and this is pure innovation"
Similarly, Ibn Qudฤmah said:
"ููุง ูุฎุชูู ูููุง ุฃุญุฏ ุฅูู ุงู ุฌุงุก ุงูุฃุดุนุฑู ูุฃููุฑูุง"
That there was no disagreement on this issue until al-Ashสฟarฤซ emerged"
"ููุง ูุฎุชูู ูููุง ุฃุญุฏ ุฅูู ุงู ุฌุงุก ุงูุฃุดุนุฑู ูุฃููุฑูุง"
That there was no disagreement on this issue until al-Ashสฟarฤซ emerged"
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