Now comes the 2nd part = proving same Varnashrama as Puranas from Rigveda.but before that i am unable to understand the exact stance of Mr @Koenraad_Elst sir please clarify what is your stance, did casteist ppl interpolate the Shambuka episode, or it is determined due to solar
prince? Lets assume as you said Rama was a solar prince, how does that make Shambuka episode an addition? What is the relation? Also your assumption is incorrect because any "rational" being cannot assume this "rationally" as Ramayana is an Epic, not a scientific journal that you
make rational assumptions on Rama's lineage, character, or being human/god. Epics in Greece were based on some Hero with superhuman abilities and a race connected to some God perhaps. Hindu Epics are based on Dharma not Heroism. Krishna wasn't a typical Greek Hero,+
Didnt even yield a weapon, was the side-guy friend and charioteer of the Hero, ran away from war still Mahabharata is all about Krishna and so is Rama not a typical Greek Hero who fights for his rights, an obedient son who leaves everything for His father and faces hardships. +
All Hindu Epics are focused on God, Narayana. And they start by asking questions (to highlights upanishadic nature) to a sage. Now you shall first clarify, if casteist people added this story, i prev showed how the entire Ramayana is full of Varnashrama duties, so that Varna +
isn't a parameter to determine the interpolation of the story. Secondly this isn't a problem because the ones who allege are racist people. We aren't racist. Social Heirarchy doesn't mean someone is by default inferior or superior. Solar prince thing also doesn't determine addi-
ion. Please dont fear the ones who allege. Your forte is History, our forte is Dharma. We have enough arguments to defend our Shastras. Now coming to Rigveda. Rigveda has 3 eras as per Indology. Oldest Mandalas are 6,3,7. Mid ones are 4,2. Rest are new and 10th is latest. +
Amd this classification is by Shrikanta Talageri. 6th is oldest and 10th is newest. Now if i show the classical Purushasukta one might say this is in later Veda. So i will show prior 10th mandala how the same Varnashrama was prevalent in Rigveda as well. Mr Koneraad i suppose +
isn't a varna by karma believer. If He is,its more irrational and non-academic stance. Lets see 6th mandala quotes 6.75.10 (i'll write the mantras in Laukika sanskrit for easy understanding) हे ब्राह्मणाः, सोम्याः पितरः, ऋतवर्धितारः, नः रक्षत। अनेहसे द्यावापृथिव्यौ नः शिवे +
स्याताम्। Rest mantra is unimportant to this discussion. Here the Brahmanas are glorified by taking the Caste's name, "O Brahmanas, Makers of Soma, Those who increase truth/universal order, may you protect us." . Brahmanas are protectors of Rita, Rita in vedas means universal +
Order. Rita also means Dharma. Brahmanas since the beginning are glorified and praised. Lets see how the Kshatriya is positioned. RV 6.25.8 = यजत्र इन्द्र! ते महते देवैः वृत्रहत्यायै नृषह्ये (युद्धे) इन्द्रियाय (विजयाय) विश्वं सत्यम् अन्वदायि, क्षत्रम् अन्वदायि, सहः च अन्वदायि।
Here the gods grant Indra satya (power to behold truth), kshatra (power to protect citizens) and saha (power to conquer enemies) in order to be victorious in the battle with Vritra. Kshatra is translated as "suitable vigour" by Wilson which is incorrect. +
Kshatra means the divine entity or Varna within Kshatriya. Kshatratejas like Brahmatejas. That is kshatra, क्षत+त्र (kshata means harm and tra means protection). A divine power given to you in order to protect is kshatram. इदं ब्राह्मम् इदं क्षत्रं शापादपि शरादपि famous shloka.+
Kshatra is interchangebly used for valour might etc also. But the usage is clear that Indra has been granted this unique power by the Gods for a battle. Kshatriyas where indeed associated with battles and warfare. Brahmanas with protection of Truth, Yajnas and Dharma.
Now something amazing is coming up. Brahmanas also had the right to ask for alms. RV 2.12.5 - यो रध्रस्य चोदिता, नाधमानस्य (याचमानस्य) कृशस्य कीर्तयतेः ब्राह्मणस्य चोदिता, सुशिप्रः .... स इन्द्रः। Here Indra who is a kshatriya is granting alms to the krisha (poor) brahmanas who +
Begging (नाधमान) for alms and praising (कीरेः) Indra. He is called the encourager of Brahmanas, ie kshatriyas are encouraging brahmanas into Yajnas Punya etc by granting them their rightful alms. This is 2nd mandala not from New Rigveda. Now lets come to Shudras. +
RV 2.12.4 येन इमानि विश्वानि च्यवनानि कृतानि, यः अधरं दासं वर्णं गुहायाम् अकरोत्, यः अरेः पुष्टानि आदत्, लक्ष्यं जितवान् इन्द्रः यथा श्वघ्नी मृगम् आदत्। By whom all the mortal realms where established, who put forth the low servile tribe into the cavern. Who snatches the wealth +
Of the enemies just like a hunter and who wins his goal, O people! He is Indra. Here the word "अधरं दासं वर्णम्" . Adhara means low. Daasa means servant. Varna ofc wont mean colour here (lol). The translation by Wilson uses "servile tribe" for दास वर्ण . There is no racial +
connection here. It is simple everyone has a place in society. And Heirarchy was existent since Rigveda. Indra put them in caverns to protect them. And he snatched away the prosperity of the Dasyus (the Asuras) who harassed the Aryas. Dasyu also is for the terrorisers. Sayana +
never used Dasyu for servants or Aryas. Dasa was used for servile tribe. Hence we see that Aryan Dravidian nonsense is crushed by Indra Sukta of Rigveda. 10th mantra shows Indra as killer of dasyus and 4th mantra shows Indra as protector of Shudras.
A king's duty is to protect +
A king's duty is to protect +
The powerless and crush the terrorisers. What more proof of hierarchy is required now? If this is casteism, Rigveda since the 2nd Mandala is Casteist. Brahmanas getting alms, Brahmanas are protrctors of truth and universal order since oldest Rigveda. And Shudras are for service.
Lastly, I've heard a rumour that You/someone else claimed rebirth concept is absent in Vedas. What a joke. Old Rigveda 7th Mandala has the Mahamrityunjaya Mantra. "Free me from the bandhana/bondage that is death, and please liberate me (मुक्षीय)". We dont die once. +
If there was only 1 life,we would die once. And hence this mrityu would never be a bondage we need liberation from. Either we cease to exist after death, or we have eternal heaven/hell. Neither case is possible because if we cease to exist or the afterlife is eternal, +
death would only a 1 time thing. Not a reoccurring Cycke we need liberation from. But as death is repetitive, and we ask for liberation, it means the cycle of rebirth and moksha is as old as 7th mandala of Rigveda (old Rigveda). Idk who claimed but this claim also is busted.शम्.
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