Kitab ut-Tawhid by Imam Al-Maturidi is the basis of Kalam for Maturidiyyah but its Doctrine comes from Imam Abu Hanifa through his companions and Imam At-Tahawi.
Imam At-Tahawi says, "This is the Doctrine of the ASWJ derived from The Sahaba & submitted to us by their companions."
Imam At-Tahawi says, "This is the Doctrine of the ASWJ derived from The Sahaba & submitted to us by their companions."
If Aqidah Tahawiyyah already exists, why write Kitab al-Tawhid??
Imam Maturidi like Imam Al-Ashari were facing off with the Mu'tazila & their opposite extreme the Karramiyyah. So they needed a book that has technical strength to refute both sides of the Extreme.
Imam Maturidi like Imam Al-Ashari were facing off with the Mu'tazila & their opposite extreme the Karramiyyah. So they needed a book that has technical strength to refute both sides of the Extreme.
The Karramiyyah would call the Maturidi/Ashari Doctrine Mu'tazili while the Mu'tazila would call the Maturidi/Ashari Doctrine Karrami.
You see the irony?
Modern day Wahhabis take directly from Ibn Karram. Why? Because Ibn Taymiyyah said so. Even though Scholars rejected him.
You see the irony?
Modern day Wahhabis take directly from Ibn Karram. Why? Because Ibn Taymiyyah said so. Even though Scholars rejected him.
I like how Imam Maturidi calls the Karramiyah "al Mutakashhifa" in his Ta'wilat.
What I learned though is that Ibn Taymiyyah was very influenced by Ibn Karram to such a point that he would Fabricate Hadiths or references to defend his view points just as Ibn Karram did.
What I learned though is that Ibn Taymiyyah was very influenced by Ibn Karram to such a point that he would Fabricate Hadiths or references to defend his view points just as Ibn Karram did.
Scholars of Hadith [Dhahabi, Asqalani, Darimi, Bayhaqi, Ibn Hibban etc] called Ibn Karram "\A Liar, a deviant, a Fabricator.\"
Ibn Khuzayma who admired Ibn Karram would later find this out after defending him with zest.
Ibn Taymiyyah defended and took from him A LOT.
Ibn Khuzayma who admired Ibn Karram would later find this out after defending him with zest.
Ibn Taymiyyah defended and took from him A LOT.
What is obvious is that just as Ibn Taymiyyah adopted Ibn Karram, so have the Wahhabiya.
This is no doubt Taqlid of Ibn Taymiyyah.
IT took from Ibn Karram not only in Theology & Usul but in many ways. My teacher commented on this saying "He had to bc he admired his ascetism."
This is no doubt Taqlid of Ibn Taymiyyah.
IT took from Ibn Karram not only in Theology & Usul but in many ways. My teacher commented on this saying "He had to bc he admired his ascetism."
Ibn Taymiyyah's Fabrication of narrations or chains of narration comes from a particular doctrine where the idea is that - /"Lying or Fabricating narrations 'in good faith' to defend the Doctrine of Ahlul Sunnah is permitted./"
Anyway, the key point is that the Najdiyyah are more or less adherents of Karramiyah sect.
The use of Ibn Karram's language like the term "Julus (Sitting)" with Istiwa ala'l Arsh.
Or calling Asharis/Maturidis -Kullabi/Jahmi.
Falsely Attributing I'tizal on the Maturidis.
The use of Ibn Karram's language like the term "Julus (Sitting)" with Istiwa ala'l Arsh.
Or calling Asharis/Maturidis -Kullabi/Jahmi.
Falsely Attributing I'tizal on the Maturidis.
The usage of the word "Fawqu" to claim Allah is in a direction of Upwards, WITH IN heaven.
Also, the idea that Allah is a body but the Kayf (howness) of the body is not known.. The example is given of what is not known: Size, number of 'body parts' mentioned (face, hand, Foot).
Also, the idea that Allah is a body but the Kayf (howness) of the body is not known.. The example is given of what is not known: Size, number of 'body parts' mentioned (face, hand, Foot).
So ibn Karram attributed to Allah with words like:
Fawqa, upwards/above in a specific direction.
Julus, sitting on the throne.
Hadd, Limitations set on himself.
Misahat, space next to him for the prophet.
Jasad, A body unlike any other body.
Jawhar, substance.
استغفر الله
Fawqa, upwards/above in a specific direction.
Julus, sitting on the throne.
Hadd, Limitations set on himself.
Misahat, space next to him for the prophet.
Jasad, A body unlike any other body.
Jawhar, substance.
استغفر الله
Ibn Taymiyyah followed Ibn Karram even in his Ascetism, Political heat, disassociation with contemporary scholars.
Mind you, Ibn Karram was a Sufi in the deepest end. He was anthropomorphist but believed in Sufi extremeties too.
My teacher says This is why IT admired him.
Mind you, Ibn Karram was a Sufi in the deepest end. He was anthropomorphist but believed in Sufi extremeties too.
My teacher says This is why IT admired him.
@AthariSunni @loadsofmagic Idc about Hashwiyya though. I know you Najdis are openly adherents of Ibn al-Karram.
You make Taqlid of Ibn Taymiyyah on Ibn Karram.
You make Taqlid of Ibn Taymiyyah on Ibn Karram.
[Correction]
Ibn Taymiyyah did not Fabricate Hadith of the Prophet.. That is a mistake on my part.
He would, however reject strong Hadiths and use Weak ones in matters of Aqidah, some even considered Mawdu' as seen in his Book Kitab Al-Arsh.
Ibn Taymiyyah did not Fabricate Hadith of the Prophet.. That is a mistake on my part.
He would, however reject strong Hadiths and use Weak ones in matters of Aqidah, some even considered Mawdu' as seen in his Book Kitab Al-Arsh.
I have seen quotes and replies. Anyway, This is a direct quote from Ibn Taymiyyah in Aqidah al-Isfahaniyyah.
Remember, This is the man categorized as a deviant Mujassimah by great scholars of his time and those who followed (i.e Dhahabi, Asqalani, Ibn al-Jawzi, Ibn Kathir)
Remember, This is the man categorized as a deviant Mujassimah by great scholars of his time and those who followed (i.e Dhahabi, Asqalani, Ibn al-Jawzi, Ibn Kathir)
ونقل ابن حيان هذا كان قد حُذف من النسخة المطبوعة القديمة، ولكن النسخة الخطية تثبته. وسبب حذفه من النسخة المطبوعة ما قاله الزاهد الكوثري في تعليقه على السيف،
قال: "وقد أخبرني مصحح طبعه بمطبعة السعادة أنه استفظعها جدًا فحذفها عند الطبع لئلا يستغلها أعداء الدين..."
قال: "وقد أخبرني مصحح طبعه بمطبعة السعادة أنه استفظعها جدًا فحذفها عند الطبع لئلا يستغلها أعداء الدين..."
ذكر ذلك في كتابه منهاج فقال ما نصه:《ثم إن جمهور أهل السنّة يقولون إنّه ينزل ولا يخلو منه العرش كما نقل مثل ذلك عن إسحاق بن راهويه وحماد بن زيد وغيرهما ونقلوه عن أحمد بن حنبل في رسالته》
وهذه فرية على أهل السنّة ولا يستطيع أن يأتي بعبارة لأحد منهم.
فانظر كيف يكذب عل البخاري
وهذه فرية على أهل السنّة ولا يستطيع أن يأتي بعبارة لأحد منهم.
فانظر كيف يكذب عل البخاري
وقال أيضا:《إن عرشه أو كرسيه وسع السموات والأرض ، وإنه يجلس عليه فما يفضل منه قدر أربعة أصابع- أو ما يفضل منه إلا قدر أربعة أصابع- وإنه ليئط به أطيط الرَّحْل الجديد براكبه》
استغفر الله العظيم
ولم يكن له كفوا أحد
كذبة أخرى ينبثقها من رواية ملفقة
Vry weak Hadith close to Mwdhu'
استغفر الله العظيم
ولم يكن له كفوا أحد
كذبة أخرى ينبثقها من رواية ملفقة
Vry weak Hadith close to Mwdhu'
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