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MASSIVE THREAD:
Threads like this really demonstrate the point that many more intelligent folks are making about young men. The lowering rate at which men have sex is not the inherent problem, itās the indicator of a broader social problem that others have discussed.
Threads like this really demonstrate the point that many more intelligent folks are making about young men. The lowering rate at which men have sex is not the inherent problem, itās the indicator of a broader social problem that others have discussed.
The problem isnāt, in and of itself, that men are having sex at lower rates. The problem is *why* this is occurring. Hint: itās not the death of the patriarchy. A coalescence of factors has led to all young people, but particularly men, being socially atomized and alienated.
A considerable number of young men donāt have a single friend. Of those that do, itās often a childhood or college friend who now lives far away. Working 40+ hours a week, for wages that barely sustain, leaves little time to cultivate meaningful relationships with others.
Itās hard to join new social groups, clubs, etc. Itās hard to work in a healthy faith life. Itās hard to go on dates and cultivate romantic relationships. Itās growing ever-harder due to the coalescence of our modern economic and political order. Lockean liberalism, capitalism.
Itās created a chunk of peopleādisproportionately menāwho are not only single but also nearly or entirely alone: friendless, isolated, atomized, hopeless.
These men are, by the actual definition, āincel.ā They are involuntarily celibate. They want a partner, but canāt
These men are, by the actual definition, āincel.ā They are involuntarily celibate. They want a partner, but canāt
find one. We need to distinguish incels in this sense from ācapital-I Incelsā (the woman-haters). This former group is comprised of otherwise normal menāeducated, kind, perhaps even sociableāmen. They just are atomized, alone, or unable to find time. Maybe theyāre kinda weird,
or kinda shy, or (even unknowingly) feel defeated by a culture thatās increasingly glorifying casual hookups so that the top 20% of men sleep with the top 80% of women (in terms of just physical attractiveness). You canāt deny this reality. Itās easy to just shame these men, but
donāt be surprised when they turn to dark places in response. Iām not talking JBPāJBP is kinda goofy, I donāt agree with him, but heās not that bad. Iām talking darker groups and voices that hate women, society, etc. These men, the ālowercase-i incelsā need support, need to be
understood. They need their issues to be treated as if theyāre human. They are human, and not everything happening to them is their fault. Theyāre not owed sex, but they are owed care and attention to social ills that affect themāatomization. The same for women.
And this leads to the bigger point: I see many responding to these issues, usually either women or feminist-as-mating-strategy men, saying āthis isnāt my problem.ā Well, a few things: 1) on a human level, you should just care about others; 2) it absolutely is your problem.
You just donāt know it yet. What happens when those top 20% of men, sleeping around with most of the sexually active women, finally pair off and settle down? Thatās a lot of single women who will suddenly complain about how theyāre 36 and single. On a selfish level, they should
care. But also, more broadly, itās all of our problem that a huge chunk of our working populationāyoung menāfeel detached and disillusioned by their country. And then their concerns are met with snark and disdain. How can you say āitās not my problemā but then turn around and
complain about potential violence from the ācapital-Iā Incels? Clearly you recognize this is our problemāitās all of our problem. And itāll only get worse. When you have voices as disparate as Vaush on one hand and Gladden Pappin on the other all lamenting the same social ills,
we should wake up and listen. This is a problem. Itās only going to get worse if we donāt start treating human beings as human beings and listening to their problems. Nobody is entitled to sex, or even to romance. But all people are entitled to the conditions that could
make these things a reality for them. Theyāre not guaranteed the outcome, but they ought to be afforded the opportunities. Right now, our economic, social, and political order donāt afford them these opportunities, and instead people collectively attack these young men
for lamenting this fact. Youāre not one of the good guys for ignoring this issue. Youāre not working to make anything better. Youāre contributing to the problem while thinking yourself a good feminist/good ally. In the long-run, youāre being the exact opposite.
We must foster communities, we must foster a care for time and placeārootedness and permanence. This goes deeper than āwalkable citiesā but rather involves an understanding of culture and the long arc of time. We must understand ourselves to be stewards of what we inherited
from those who came before us, in preparation for those who will come after us. Itās not just hokey āretvrnā talking pointsāitās our only hope. We must help young men realize there is such a thing as good and healthy masculinity that doesnāt become a toxic caricature.
Indeed, Aristotle warns us against excess and deficiency, and (youād think) common sense does as well. Toxicity occurs at either end of the spectrum, from weird macho culture to soyboy nonsense. Allow men to be good men: good fathers, good husbands, members of community.
We need to do something, and we need to do it fastānot just for the sake of currently disaffected young men, but for everyone. The societal ills we will encounter if we donāt will be perilous.
If youād like some reading on this topic, I highly suggest sociologist Robert Nisbetās āThe Quest for Communityā as he discussed at length the causes and effects of atomization in American life. Christopher Laschās āRevolt of the Elitesā discusses economic cloistering.
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