Hallaq in "The Impossible State" denies that the Islamic society, one governed by Shar'īa, was idealistic. (p. 11)
But let's use the same argument of historical experience and see how liberalism (and liberal societies) fare.
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But let's use the same argument of historical experience and see how liberalism (and liberal societies) fare.
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"The successive bloody deportations of Indians, starting with the one implemented by Jackson's America (held up as a model of democracy by de Tocqueville), recall the 'horrors created by the Nazi handling of subject ppl."
"A slave was forced to defecate into offending slave's..
"A slave was forced to defecate into offending slave's..
mouth."
"Notice of lynchings were printed in local papers & extra cars were added to trains for spectators from miles around,.."
"Schoolchildren might get a day off school to attend lynching"
"The spectacle could include castration, skinning, roasting, hanging, and shooting."
"Notice of lynchings were printed in local papers & extra cars were added to trains for spectators from miles around,.."
"Schoolchildren might get a day off school to attend lynching"
"The spectacle could include castration, skinning, roasting, hanging, and shooting."
"Souvenirs of purchases might include fingers, toes, teeth and bones, even gen*tals of victims as well as picture postcards of the events."
(references for the above, quoted by Lusordo, "Liberalism a counter-history")
(references for the above, quoted by Lusordo, "Liberalism a counter-history")
"In the North, notionally 'free' backs suffered humiliation and persecution of every kind."
"In the South blacks continued to be subject to a prison system so sadistic that it calls to mind 'the prison camp of Nazi Germany." (Fletcher, "Origins of the New South, p. 215)
"In the South blacks continued to be subject to a prison system so sadistic that it calls to mind 'the prison camp of Nazi Germany." (Fletcher, "Origins of the New South, p. 215)
Let's talk about the American legacy of Nazism:
Eugenics started in Liberal England. It was adopted by Nazi Germany. In the US it continued till 1952 when at that time in over 30 states, interracial marriage was banned.
Eugenics started in Liberal England. It was adopted by Nazi Germany. In the US it continued till 1952 when at that time in over 30 states, interracial marriage was banned.
The destruction of Indians has been called "the greatest genocide in human history."
"As for the tragedy of natives in America, Australia, or the British colonies in general, other authors have referred, respectively, to the 'American holocaust' (or the final solution of the
"As for the tragedy of natives in America, Australia, or the British colonies in general, other authors have referred, respectively, to the 'American holocaust' (or the final solution of the
Amerindian question), the 'Australian holocaust' and late Victorian holocausts."
"..slavery experienced its maximum development following the success of three liberal revolutions."
There were 6 million slaves in Liberal England in 1850, and in the 1750s, there were more slaves in ENG than in the Spanish monarchy.
"the absolute preeminent in [slavery] was...
There were 6 million slaves in Liberal England in 1850, and in the 1750s, there were more slaves in ENG than in the Spanish monarchy.
"the absolute preeminent in [slavery] was...
the country at the head of the liberal movement."
"No nation in Europe...has...plunged so deeply into this guilt as Great Britain."
"No nation in Europe...has...plunged so deeply into this guilt as Great Britain."
In Liberal England, there were 500,000 detainees in labour camps including children. (Bentham)
Children as young as 3 were separated from their parents and sent to labour camps. (Locke)
Their crime? Poverty.
The punishment for fleeing was death.
Children as young as 3 were separated from their parents and sent to labour camps. (Locke)
Their crime? Poverty.
The punishment for fleeing was death.
"Bentham was decidedly enthusiastic. He tirelessly lauded the benefits of this institution."
Children of poor families were separated and sent to labour camps to work endlessly.
Liberal philosophers (Burke & Bentham) were proud of the institution of the Labour camps.
This kidnapping of kids was noted by Karl Marx, what he called "Herod like kidnapping".
Liberal philosophers (Burke & Bentham) were proud of the institution of the Labour camps.
This kidnapping of kids was noted by Karl Marx, what he called "Herod like kidnapping".
Alexis de Tocqueville, one of the foremost Liberal philosophers, justified genocide and dictatorship against Algerians. J S Mill, another prominent Liberal, also justified genocide, slavery and dictatorship against Africans and Indians. They justified this on Liberal grounds.
"Slavery, legalized by US juridical processes, was interpreted by enslavers not as the opposite of liberty but as a practice of liberty."
[E. Anker, Ugly Freedoms, p.3]
[E. Anker, Ugly Freedoms, p.3]
When theologians like Bodin opposed slavery, it was liberal philosophers who advocated for it. The most important of the latter was, of course, John Locke. [Lusordo, Liberalism]
Jonathan Boucher said,
"the most clamorous advocates for liberty were uniformly the harshest and worst masters of slaves."
"the most clamorous advocates for liberty were uniformly the harshest and worst masters of slaves."
"Slavery was abolished in the US not thanks to the local self-government but by the iron fist of the Union Army and temporary military dictatorship imposed by it. For this, Lincoln was accused of despotism. He resorted to 'military government'..."
Lincoln imposed a dictatorship-
Lincoln imposed a dictatorship-
in order to end slavery.
But his motivations to do so were not because he liked black people or had any sympathies. Taking England as a model of a delimited space for the white people he wanted to turn the US into a space solely for the white free race.
But his motivations to do so were not because he liked black people or had any sympathies. Taking England as a model of a delimited space for the white people he wanted to turn the US into a space solely for the white free race.
Lincoln actually wanted to deport all black people to Mexico to create a space for the community of the free superior white race.
His motivation for ending slavery was not because he believed in inequality but because he believed that blacks should not live amongst whites.
His motivation for ending slavery was not because he believed in inequality but because he believed that blacks should not live amongst whites.
Therefore, Lusordo concludes,
"But one point seems to me to be settled: it is banally ideological to characterize the catastrophe of the 20th century as a kind of new barbarian invasion that unexpectedly attacked and overwhelmed a healthy, happy society."
"But one point seems to me to be settled: it is banally ideological to characterize the catastrophe of the 20th century as a kind of new barbarian invasion that unexpectedly attacked and overwhelmed a healthy, happy society."
Prof. Frankopan also summarizes the reasons why the worst genocides have occurred in Europe and, most importantly, in the liberal secular Enlightened West.
He says,
He says,
"The Enlightenment and the Age of Reason, the progression towards democracy and civil liberty and human rights were not the result of an unseen chain linking back to Athens and antiquity or a natural state of affairs in Europe; they were the fruits of political, military and-
economic successes in faraway continents." (p. 202)
This is because of "In fact, Europe's distinctive character, as more aggressive, more unstable, and less peace-minded than other parts of the world," (p.259)
This is because of "In fact, Europe's distinctive character, as more aggressive, more unstable, and less peace-minded than other parts of the world," (p.259)
"In time persecution could be perpetrated on a massive scale. It was not for nothing that the world wars and the worst genocide in history had their origins and execution in Europe; these were the latest chapters in the long-running history of brutality and violence." (p.260)
There is so much that can be added to the long list of genocides, holocausts, torture, racism, eugenicism, racialism, pogroms, chattel slavery, and colonialism, which were executed by Western liberal throughout the past 300 years (in and out of Europe).
Yet I don't see any liberal conscious of this horrible horrible past. In fact, today's liberals still believe that a liberal state is the best we have.
Even today the country responsible for the most bloodshed is country that is considered the champion of liberty, and whose President is the "Leader of the Free World".
My central argument is that Sharia and Islamic society(ies) fared far better compared to medieval Europe, modern Europe and America.
We can compare freedom to the practice of religion and customs in which Islamic societies fare better, and also death & destruction where Europe fares far worse than the Muslim world.
Death Toll:
Death Toll:
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